Tuesday, November 29, 2005

Why Golden Palki?

I am sure everybody feels different about this subject of Golden Palki being taken to Nankana Sahib. However controversial Bibi Jagir Kaur may be, but I kind of agree with her on this that Gold does not have any place or value in Sikhism and this is more of a political show. I see it as setting of a really bad trend and reminds me of history of India when it was called the “golden Sparrow” because temples were laiden with gold. Who will stop from all the other gurudwars from doing the same thing? If DSGPC and people that support it have all this gold for palki, why not open libraries, schools, hospitals for Sikhs in the villages of Pakistan, India and other countries? There are so many people in the Sikh community that can use the money to get a medical treatment for needy kids and elders, educate themselves and have nice parks for their kids to play on, lab equipment, books and so on. That golden palki does not serve any better purpose than a simple wooden one. I don't understand why the community leaders such as Jethedars of Akal Takhat and other shrines would provide leadership and guidance to community and media and would speak up on the issue such as this.

I understand that Guru’s place should be beautiful and clean. But it should also be simple. I don’t know how much preference Guru’s gave to gold. Guru Hargobind Singh and Guru Gobind Singh Ji wore bana that were more prince like but still I don’t think they ever promoted infactuation with outer appearance. Please educate.


Blogger Gurinder said...

I do agree with you on the part that money should be spent on other sources such as medicine, education, etc....

I would like to focus on your statement, please it is just is general comment and I am also learning!

“golden palki does not serve any better purpose than a simple wooden one”

But when we buy things for ourselves or for our children why do we look for brand names? When we want to buy a home why we look for the best for ourselves and for our family? When we buy shoes why we want to most expensive leather? Simple tent for home and simple plastic shoes and clothes made from simple cotton could serve the purpose.

I think it is to show that SGGS is our living Guru not just a holy book. It is living word of God! Which is kings of kings, and it would be treated as a king of kings.

One day we will begin to treat SGGS as a Book then next it would be lying some where in our home, then it would end up in a closet where we keep our shoes, then it might end up using for burning or also for cleaning…..

Since Guru Arjan dev ji through 10th Guruji, SGGS was treated as king of kings. It was carried on elephants with most expensive palki and thousands of great sikhs would walk behind it and hundereds would clean the path in the front of it.

3:03 PM, November 29, 2005  
Blogger Gurinder said...

singh rus ji

those comments are not directed towards you, it might sound like it! Thats why I posted that its just a general comment!

You know what? these kind of postings will bring more awarness globally, so that we can learn from every perspective.

good nite ji

7:46 PM, November 29, 2005  
Blogger SikhsRus said...

Gurinder Ji,

I agree with your comments and no, I don't take things personal. I just throw out thoughts and questions as they come. You are right that respect for Guru Granth should be the utmost thing. Only thing is that the Palki being replaced has lasted for centuries and is made with marble. I guess next thought or question in my mind comes, which one is better Gold plated new sttuff or real marble? Also, in my post I mentioned about Akal Takhat not taking the stand. I am wrong on that since I read another news story which stated that Jathedar Joginder Singh Vedanti did call it a political game by the DSGPC and Mr. Sarna.

7:50 AM, November 30, 2005  
Blogger Sikhi Seeker said...

Interesting thought...
and somehow i agree with Keeping it as elite as possible. We Sikhs are (by God's grace) the biggest donors among all cultures. If we are not spending those riches on enhancing Satguru's Gaddi, we will be on something maybe much less relevant.

Reminds me of Dixie Gurughar in Toronto. The largest Gurudwara and I know i have voiced this before as well...but this gurughar gets immense chaddhava...literally countless, yet all the promises are yet to be fulfilled. You and I would assume that the sangat here is much more educated and aware, then why would they not question where all their donations are going...but nope..in vain. No questions asked. And no response deemed important to be provided to the sangat.

This makes me feel, that i rather see Satguru's Gaddi as elaborate and decorative as possible...at least makes me feel secure of some right purpose that sangat's donations are going towards.

12:21 PM, November 30, 2005  
Blogger SikhsRus said...

I wonder what it is that is keeping people from getting involved and asking questions? May be people don't know that they have a legal right for asking questions on donations to the temple. They must file taxes which are a public record here in America, and I would think is probably very similar in Canada as well. Only way Sikh public can be empowered is thru government intervention if donations are to be questioned or run for election in the gurudwara ourselves.

7:18 PM, November 30, 2005  
Blogger SikhsRus said...

Gurinder Singh Ji,

I think you should post stuff on your blog. You have such a great knowledge about Sikh history and very great insights. Our community needs people like yourself that have the knowledge and are willing to share it with others. Even if 20 poeple read your posts those are the 20 in whose lives you have made a difference. Please do this seva if time permits.

7:22 PM, November 30, 2005  
Blogger ਿੲਕ ਿਸੰਘ said...

yeah, i agree with gurinder on this one. sort of... i think it's the tradition of it. no one not hindus, muslims or christians treat their holybook as we do. we do treat it as a living teacher.

in christianity's case it's Christ that was King of Kings but he lived a very humble life so in christianity you see wooden crosses (because he was crucified on a wooden cross so that's more accurate)...in our case we look at it from the opposite point of view.

BUT i don't like it when so much money goes towards gurudwara(to enhance their appearnce) and so little to charity. i was just reading on pingalwara's web site (thanks to seek!) that the medicine costs only $4000/month? that's nothing compared to what gurudwaras get and spend on covering this with gold and that with gold.

but i'm fine with the palki. i still don't know why it started in delhi though.

9:04 AM, December 01, 2005  
Blogger Gurinder said...

Sikh r us ji and others,

thank you for your compliments. But honestly I am still in my infancy about sikhi.

My purpose of commiting on blogs is to bring positive aspect to everything. And we can learn from each other.

in my philosphy class lectures we used to have really great discussions such as:

1)where is soul
2)Is mind physical or nonphysical
3)when does soul enters the body?
4) does test tube produced babies have soul, if yes where it comes from?
4) does God really exist?

In my religion classes:
There were only 50 sikh students in that university. At the end of each semester we ended up teaching sikhism in lutheran university even to the profs.

There are million scientific reasons that God exists and one doubt and lack of imagination rejects the existence.

My objective is to bring positive and constructive thoughts.......

1:33 PM, December 01, 2005  
Blogger SikhsRus said...

Wow! Philosophy and Religion! That is deep. I wish I had taken those as majors in school. Teaching Sikhism to professors, now that is something. You can definitely provide us a lot of insight. I wish there were more Sikh philosophers out there. I don't know why I think of philsophers as humble thinkers that are way ahead of their times.

1:53 PM, December 01, 2005  
Blogger Gurinder said...

I know it sounds great! But I number one Murkh.

1:59 PM, December 01, 2005  
Blogger Anoop said...

I agree with Singhs R us. We should more money on education. For reason I always feel that Guru Granth Sahib emphasize knowledege.We can have Wooden Palki and still have respect for Guru Granth Sahib. In view we show respect when we understand word of Guru.

6:06 PM, December 01, 2005  
Blogger Gurinder said...

You are right on the part that money should be spent on education, medicine to help needy people despite of their religion background or caste system. I hate to use word “caste” because it was eliminated about 400 yrs ago in our Sikh philosophy. Now day’s people are educated and have acquired knowledge in various disciplines, yet the ugliness or duality still exists in our minds and hearts. Knowledge has been increasing and volumes and volumes of unlimited knowledge can be found in the libraries. All the priests of every religion have lot of knowledge they went to university where they have done their doctorate degrees, but still retain that seed of bias and duality.
If respect or prestige only comes out of knowledge then only the priests should have been closer to God or they would only understand how to respect.

I think respect or honoring comes from love not from knowledge. Knowledge will be our guidance or a lighthouse.

In ASA di waar, Guru Nanak ji, states that oh man you may study all the textbooks on this earth, you may study equivalent to the pores in your body, and you may study textbooks and fill the land with it. All this will not even bring a tiny spark of light into your heart which is filled with darkness.

Even if there are thousands of suns still they will not be able to remove the darkness without the True Guru.

Starting from Guru Arjan dev ji who was baked on the hot template and then hot sand was poured over his head for five days. Then ninth Guruji was beheaded and Guru Gobind singh ji gave away his four sons. And when he was asked where are your sons? Guruji replied so what if four are dead there are thousands of my SONS alive!

It was done for us, so that we could breathe freely, and make choices freely in our life.

Now we can only think of wooden palki for Guruji because that does not fulfill our needs? This is only respect we can give back in return for their sacrifices, which were made for us. Forget about giving our heads to the Guruji that question is far fetched.

Remember, this is question about LOVE!

Why we give roses or flowers to the person we love? Why we buy gifts for the person we love?

This article is not targeted at anyone. I would like to write more in detail every paragraph but don’t have time and it will get very lengthy.

7:18 PM, December 02, 2005  
Blogger Sikhi Seeker said...

Yes, the $4000 for the medicine alone. Why the veerji are we not able to suffice that need? Someone ask Mrs. Abnask Kang or others of the pingalwara ontairo...they get much much more than the $4000 and i am NOT indicating that the money is not being sent to the designated spots...but yet there is scarcity. it's sad, yet true. I have finally stoppped donating at random spots. I bought this hersheys huge piggies bank...and now i donate in my own box(ironic that i started this after quitting my job:P) but that aint the point. I've decided that if i can't voice out my concerns, i shall but ensure that my hard earned money and sincere concerns are answered first hand. I will spend this money on those people by myself!!

And about Sikh scholars - oh Satguru i am so incapable of making these comments, but i have BIGG CONERNS, DEBATES AND COMMENTS about tht field. Maybe after my exams are over, i'll do a thoughtful entry on it on my blog:) But yes, Sikhism needs lots and lots of Sikh scholars!!

10:02 AM, December 03, 2005  
Blogger Gurinder said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:34 AM, December 03, 2005  
Blogger Gurinder said...

I do agree that money donated at Gurdwara's should be used wisely where its most needed.

But why scarifice our enriched traditions? Everything should run parallel to each other.

I think you are doing great by providing money directly where it is needed the most and we all should follow this concept. Instead donating hundreds and thousands of dollars to gurdwara's we should donate our hard earned money where we think it would be used wisely!

Today we might think of wooden palki then we may not need SGGS in gurdawara because it could be displayed on screens and so on! Where do we draw the line!

10:34 AM, December 03, 2005  
Blogger Sikhi Seeker said...

wow...Gurinder veerji you have some serious debates...and very convincing ones...thought of being a lawyer?? ;)

11:33 AM, December 03, 2005  
Blogger msingh said...

Just to explore the question being debated here from a different angle, is there a purpose of of having things luxurious, such as silk clothes, golden jewellery, etc?


6:12 PM, December 03, 2005  
Blogger Gurinder said...

Me no likey lawery!

8:25 PM, December 03, 2005  
Blogger SikhsRus said...

I think one of the biggest seva the Sikh community needs from us now is to help the younger generation explore Sikhi and stay away from drugs, gangs etc., open libraries in India and not just Punjab, hospitals and shelters for people (not just Sikhs) but all in the name of Gurus. I can't wait to see a medical hospital, school or a college here in the bay area with name of Gurus so people know what Sikhs are all about. Just imagine:

"Guru Nanak Medical Center"
"Guru Gobind Homeless shelter"
"Guru Ram Das Library"
"Khlasa Engineering College" and so on.
These institutions not for just Sikhs but non-sikhs alike. That is when people will know what we are all about. I wish I had the money and the know how to do all these things and community will work together. We just need people that know how to open and run these institutions.

11:02 AM, December 04, 2005  
Blogger Sikhi Seeker said...

Oh Manjit Singh ji, you'd be very glad to hear that someone (I can't forgot his name), donated some $4 million dollars i think :P to this new hospital being constructed in Brampton area and has donated exclusively for the emergency services, which is named, by his request as the Guru Nanak Emergency ward. This was all over the news throughout Canada methinks. It's really marvelous! God bless all these people who have the money and are donating it for the right purposes, and God bless all those who do whatever they can and have high aspirations at the same time :D:D

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh!!!

1:01 PM, December 04, 2005  
Blogger Sikhi Seeker said...

*Can't blv that i forgot his name :P

1:02 PM, December 04, 2005  
Blogger SikhsRus said...


Glad to hear that it is happening! I can't wait to see it happening all over the World. Since Sikhs don't have that much clout in the U.S as in Canada or India and the U.S. political system is set up based on winner takes all (i.e. republican or democrat). Only option we have is to open every businesses and non-profit organizations with names of Gurus or Sikh history to bring awareness in the country. But the benefit must go to Sikhs and non-Sikhs alike to make a real difference. Sometimes I think may be I should explore running a non-profit organization if I learn enough as to how to do it honestly and efficiently. Then thought comes that with the paranoid about corruption prevalent so much in Indian society, I think people would be hesitant to give money and I would not be able to do it alone. There are just so many ideas. A local Kabaddi association for kids, charity of some sort, helping people in geenral. May be one day???

1:55 PM, December 04, 2005  
Blogger SikhsRus said...

Oh yeah! If I ever win a big lottery, my goal would be to not donate most of it right away and on myself, friends and family, but to double it within two years by investing most of it, so I can help twice the amount of people. Some of you may not agree and probably think I am just a dreamer!!! But, some of these dreams keep me working hard to make more so I can help more.
Recently I donated to United Sikhs and UNICEF for Tsunami and Katrina, but I did ask for the financial statement for United Sikhs. This is my way to find out if the organization I am supporting is really doing a good job. Personally, I look for if the organization has the insight and efficient enough to save rather than spend and spend.

It is kind of like the Japanese story of bags of rice during famine. The emperor distributed half of the supply of bags to people and planted the other for next crop instead of using all. That is how I think the organization should be run.

2:27 PM, December 04, 2005  
Blogger Gurinder said...

Awesome news!!!

That's also a golden palki!! May god bless the person who donated under guru's name!

4:36 PM, December 04, 2005  
Blogger Gurinder said...

I won't be able to repond to any posts unitl feb 06.

Happy holidays
Happy X-mas
Happy new year


6:53 PM, December 04, 2005  
Blogger SikhsRus said...

Happy holidays to you, Sardar Gurinder Singh Ji. Have a great time wheerver you happen to be.

8:34 PM, December 04, 2005  

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